About this episode
Evan and Jeremy worked together for years in the Utah fire service. Evan was the guy who set the fitness standard on every crew and then turned that discipline into wellness programs built around sleep, chronic stress, and exposure. A deployment to the California wildfires put a falling tree on top of his helmet, and the injuries that followed took away the job and most of the physical life he knew.
This is a long, honest conversation. Evan talks about losing his father on the family farm when he was seven and how that day pointed him toward the fire service. He and Jeremy talk about the weight first responders carry home, why marriage is meant to be a crucible, trading lenses with the people you love, and the difference between holding grief and trying to get over it.
The back half is about identity and help. Evan built a wellness curriculum and then had to live it. He is learning to accept support from the fire family, and Jeremy pushes him to see that his story is now the most useful thing he has to give.
This episode includes frank conversation about grief, depression, and suicidal thoughts. If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text 988 in the US to reach the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
Key takeaways
- The day that set his direction 5:28
Evan lost his father in a farm accident when he was seven. The crews who came that day, and how they treated his family, are the reason he became a firefighter. - We swing hardest on ourselves 17:42
First responders walk into calls where the odds are already lost and still walk away blaming themselves. Jeremy and Evan talk about carrying that home. - Unrealistic expectations wear people down 24:12
The public expects first responders to be superhuman on every call and in every off-duty moment. Evan argues that departments need to plan for the stress that comes with that. - Marriage is a crucible 24:58
Evan says marriage was never meant to be soothing all the time. It is where you get refined, and both men are honest about the hard years in their own marriages. - Fit to respond, fit to retire 30:33
Evan's wellness work aims to send firefighters into retirement healthy in body and mind, with an identity that does not end when the job does. - Trade lenses 36:04
Before you judge the person in front of you, swap lenses and look at the situation the way they see it. Evan credits the practice with helping his marriage survive. - Mindfulness does not have to be formal 37:42
Meditation can be as simple as stopping to imagine what someone else is experiencing. Jeremy admits his version usually comes after he loses his temper, and that he is working on being slow to anger. - Fail fast, fail frequently 47:08
Jeremy's view is that small, frequent falls leave smaller scars and heal faster than one fall off a cliff. - The obstacle becomes the way 50:24
Evan honors his father, and even the people who wronged him, by doing something useful with the pain he was given. - Wellness is a three-legged stool 1:05:41
Nutrition, mental health, and fitness hold each other up. Kick out one leg and the whole thing tips. For most firefighters the best starting point is sleep. - A mindset that cut both ways 1:15:09
A Jack London credo about burning bright pushed Evan to work 16-hour days building his program. He is grateful for it and honest that it was not sustainable. - The California deployment 1:18:16
On a spot-fire check above a horse ranch, a damaged tree cracked and a large section struck Evan on the head. He kept working the deployment before the long road of diagnosis began. - My family deserved it 1:37:05
Accepting medical retirement and support went against everything in Evan's wiring. He did it because his family deserved it. - Let people help 1:44:00
Jeremy's point is that refusing help robs the people who want to give it. The fire family is an extended family for exactly these moments. - Your story is the message now 2:01:12
Jeremy tells Evan that the lessons he has been through are now more useful to people than his physical story ever was. - Where he wants to be at 80 2:12:49
Grandkids, enough stability that nobody is stressed, and a reputation for helping people find meaning and purpose when it seemed impossible. Evan is writing a series of books for kids through the Heroes Hero program.
In their words
“I think the worst swings I've ever received are from myself.”
“it's meant to be a crucible.”
“Without our own pains, we wouldn't be able to understand the pains of others.”
“We all know we can't bear it alone, man. It's impossible to bear something like this alone.”
“That guy helped some of the people figure out how to find meaning and purpose when it seemed impossible.”
Quotes are taken from the episode audio and lightly trimmed for filler words.
Chapters
- 0:48 Welcome Evan Fitzgerald
- 5:28 Growing up on the farm and losing his dad
- 13:34 Why he became a firefighter
- 17:42 The swings we take on ourselves
- 24:12 Expectations on first responders
- 24:58 Marriage as a crucible
- 30:33 Fit to respond, fit to retire
- 36:04 Trading lenses
- 37:42 Mindfulness and slow to anger
- 47:08 Fail fast, fail frequently
- 50:24 The obstacle becomes the way
- 1:03:58 Building a wellness program
- 1:05:41 The three-legged stool and sleep
- 1:15:09 The Jack London mindset
- 1:18:16 The California wildfire injury
- 1:26:08 Diagnosis and recovery
- 1:37:05 Medical retirement and accepting help
- 1:44:00 Letting the fire family carry some of it
- 2:01:12 Turning the story into a message
- 2:12:49 Legacy and the Heroes Hero program
Also on the channel
- Evan and Sarah Fitzgerald: How to Deal with Depression (2024)
- Shocking Truths About the Dark Side of Firefighting Culture with Evan Fitzgerald (2024)
Bring this conversation to your stage
Jeremy spent twenty years in the fire service and speaks to first responder groups, departments, and the families who stand behind them about stress, identity, and building a life after the job. If this episode is the conversation your crew needs, start with the speaking page.